Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. So they can grab onto the female and hold tight while they're mating. SAM KEAN: And, you know, there was kind of antisemitism growing at this time, so he thought that someone had framed him, and six weeks after Nobel published his results in Nature, Kammerer sent a letter to Moscow. Really slowly, gradually, achingly slowly. Well, it was a zoo where there was all sorts of experiments going on. Suddenly you're marked. I could have turned out like some of the other kids. That tongue is doing something to the DNA. JAD: Not only that. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? So here's what you're going to notice. All rights reserved. BARBARA HARRIS: A couple of days later, I had already bonded with her so much, it was as if I gave birth to her. So the great rat nightmare comes true where the females become their mothers. To build these terrariums and aquariums and stock them with animals. PAT: Yeah. [chuckles], OLOV BYGREN: Yes, yes. SAM KEAN: I should add too. ROBERT: Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. So for Isaiah, being born was like just being cut off. ROBERT: Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. She's 20 months old. ROBERT: And those lucky ones, according to Darwin's theory, they would have had to have been born with some random mutation in their genes SAM KEAN: That gave them an advantage in this situation. As he's doing his rounds, he stops by the midwife toad terrarium, he looks down at that little male toad with grapes stuck to his legs and he wonders, "How adaptable is that little guy?" I mean, it's pretty common but like, here's a for instance, my dad from my entire life had this thing where if someone was whistling, he would. JAD: Plus, you know, Lamarck didn't get all the biological details right. He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. PAT: And even though they look basically nothing alike. Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. ROBERT: You mean, if you had a starving grandfather, you would be a healthier boy for the because you had a starving grandfather? He was just You know, most babies are kinda peaceful, he was never really peaceful. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? More of this particular protein. Theyd basically starve. She'll be two in January. PAT: Barbara tried to get a law passed requiring just that. I'm Sam Kean's dad. I went to the hospital and picked him up. That's the stuff that makes you you. They all go down to the DNA, surround that methyl and just, pow! They present previous theories on evolution and then present the currently accepted Darwinian Theory of Evolution. The neural chemical signal that gets activated during licking, is serotonin. Radiolab is on YouTube! He actually coined the word biology, too. ROBERT: You cant say that. TRANSCRIPTS. Anyways, God bless you. He was really one of the first grand theorists in biology. This was a really radical place at the time because you have to remember that people studying animals up till now, they were basically studying preserved specimens, and so on. This is Radiolab. Radiolab: From Tree to Shining Tree LISTEN Three guests: Suzanne Simard, a professor of forest ecology and teacher at the University of British Columbia, Jennifer Frazer, a science writer that has a blog called The Artful Amoeba, and Roy Halling, a mycologist. MICHAEL MEANEY: That activates maternal behavior. ROBERT: But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago. Yeah, it drifts into something like a shopping channel. ], This could mean sterilization, it could mean getting an IUD.]. JAD: You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. Tell me what your image of a drug-using pregnant woman is. Okay, I'm here. I ended up finding myself really conflicted about it. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? Okay, well of them, don't really know what happened to her. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? So he's got to live his life as a toad with all this baggage on him? Like Id be like, Weve got the keys, were gonna trash the house., Anyway, we think about that all the time and I was just talking to Lulu about that and she was just like, You know, theres a radiolab about this.. Maybe more. You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? CARL ZIMMER: mouse or rat? [laughs[ So yeah, it's embarrassing, but I believe everything happens for a reason. ROBERT: Which, when you think about it, it has a very Lamarckian flavor. If you've already had a kid, you can be sterilized. CARL ZIMMER: And when it came time to mate, the males and the females, they would mate in the water. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. The sperm carries these marks to the next generation. ROBERT: And there were from the beginning. Brain disease. This lady right here is still taking drugs and she could be pregnant again next month.]. SAM KEAN: The sperm carries these marks to the next generation. JAD: Or does it get passed on such a deep level that doesn't even require teaching? Michael was in school and he got interested in a very, very basic question about how things get passed down? But with the midwife toad, the female Lays her eggs on land and then the male midwife toad comes along And actually kind of sticks them to his back legs, like a bunch of whitish grapes, and then hops around with them basically until they hatch. She was totally an oops kid. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Panel: Sterilized? Yeah. Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. How was this woman allowed", "To walk into the hospital and drop off a damaged baby and just walk away with no consequences?". US $53.6 Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VCM II Main Cable VCM2 16pin Cable VCM 2 OBD2 Cable VCM ii IDS V101 Data Cable at the best online prices at Free shipping for many products ", PAT: In other words, "Could I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies?". JAD: Serotonin gets into the brain cells, and according to Michael unleashes MICHAEL MEANEY: A whole series of molecular events inside the cell. The bit of DNA that will give this baby when it grows up the instincts to be nice to its baby, and lick that baby. ROBERT: And rewrite the so-called rules of genetics. And as soon as she got there to pick him up, she could tell that something was wrong. One time, and I'm on flighter. We neuter them.". SAM KEAN: That was the implication, except Kammerer tried to defend himself by saying CARL ZIMMER: "Do you think I'm a Dummkopf, or an idiot, because that's what I would have to be if I left a forgery with ink standing around openly in the laboratory where so many of my enemies would have entry?". You know, you've got all these chemicals around. Cause we were talking to science writer, Carl Zimmer, and he told us that back in the early 1900s, this tension between Lamarck and Darwin got extra tense. SAM KEAN: Yeah, it was a very attractive theory to them in Moscow. She and I snuck away from the children into her office. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Not usually because it upsets people and I'm Canadian. Listen Jan 27, 2023 Birthstory A sperm, an egg, two wombs, four countries, and money. Yeah, thats it. Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, . In any case, these books tell you when each of these folks died, how they died. We had an expression here, "Dig where you stand." And that advantage, whatever it was, because it starts with one individual, and then it gets passed onto the kids, and then onto their kids, it would take a long, long, long time to spread through the whole population because, generally, that's how evolution works. JAD: Anyhow, so you got this guy, Paul Kammerer, who's good with animals. Then World War One came and that disrupted everything. Accuracy and availability may vary. Four or five steps later, we are in JAD: So almost instantaneously, the mother's tongue has reached into the baby's brain cells. Because there is more data, more information about the people of verkalix, going farther back into the past than you can find almost anywhere else on Earth. I got these genes from somewhere, but I kind of feel like she was a surrogate, like she carried me for my real mom. I said, "No, no, that's okay." Or is it? She filled out the forms went BARBARA HARRIS: Through all the training that we had to do and first aid, fingerprinted and had a background check done. You're slippery, partner's slippery. JAD: I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. Like, I mean, as far as positives can go, I think I hit the jackpot. JAD: Yeah, like you can help them overcome you. SAM KEAN: He was known for going around and giving, what he called, his big show lectures, where he would wow whole audiences of people. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: She's offering $200. They decided to explore this question, They thought, "Let's just see if we can figure out how it is the rat mothers pass down their parenting skills?". JAD: And these things are called, apparently, methyl groups. JAD: So now, the genes can make the proteins that make the rats a good mom? OLOV BYGREN: Yes, we are really data-rich. So. They told me a bunch of these stories, one of them involving, well DESTINY HARRIS: I don't have the biggest boobies in the world. And I think that no, I didn't plan on it but I wouldn't take her back for anything because she made me better. PAT: Filled with dozens of letters from women that she's paid. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? Whole lifetime of stretching. Methylations, phosphorylation, and so on. I'm the founder and director of Project Prevention. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. I mean, the idea that they could be constrained by their DNA, that maybe one of us gave them a bit of DNA thats gonna hold them back? She was thinking Can I offer these women money to use birth control? I'm so proud and I have four years clean. JAD: Even if it helps, it's horrifying. You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. PAT: And she told Barbara, "There's something you need to know about this baby.". What does that mean, he was an idiot? FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: At once and we're watching 40 litters at a time. My mom needed a girl and, boop! His big idea, as you might know, is that what a person does in their lifetime could be directly passed to their kids. And at a time when you're not making the best decisions anyway. Females seem to hate laying eggs in the water, but is that the end of the story? And youre saying that part of the DNA is covered up? Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: There's a normal distribution, right? And they had more. The show in in the radiolab eye sky transcript of was interested in his life In And bring the eye Amount of long-distance Runners and they had a Radiolab podcast about it and they. It's just a mind crushing tedium. It means what if grandpa has a bad day? Or did I somehow learn that? I just saw them as child abusers. A lot of times that's not the case. PAT: The way she saw it, the state, the federal government, somebody BARBARA HARRIS: Should say, "You're not doing this. She got one. And very often, one of them will just go crashing into the DNA and it'll stick there like a barnacle or a glob of peanut butter. But if you've got a mom who licks you. JAD: So its like grandpa's struggle is jumping forward and giving me a leg up? Nice, cool water. According to Frances, it's not just sitting up there perfectly preserved, it's in the middle of the cell, it's crowded. ROBERT: Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. Okay, and then I just had to accept it. Is that too old?" She said, "Well, she's just beautiful and she has lips like a baby doll." Except he had one. The results are there. I went to the hospital and picked him up. ROBERT: Frankly, this makes being 9, 10, 11, 12 like a rather crucial. So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? She is nine. ROBERT: Well, so here's the thing. PAT: She just knew, "This is my daughter.". PEJK MALINOVSKI: And we have a lot more grain here. I just got custody of my eight-year-old son. And, you know, there was kind of antisemitism growing at this time, so he thought that someone had framed him, and six weeks after Nobel published his results in Nature, Kammerer sent a letter to Moscow. Assuming that you can survive the ordeal, and you grow up, and you have kids of your own, the data seems to say that your kids will benefit from your suffering. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. ROBERT: Rewrite their their blueprint? We actually sent our friend, Pejk Malinovski, to the archives in Stockholm to check it out. I guess retard. And that's when things would start to get out of control. Maybe like those methyl things we were telling you about with the rats. Whole lifetime of stretching. Listen Feb 3, 2023 Ukraine: The Handoff Pregnancy, and choice, in a war. CARL ZIMMER: He was mighty skeptical. OLOV BYGREN: So they didn't starve to death. I have to be creative.". At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. ], I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. There was a newspaper called The Daily Express and they have these headlines that come out. The show is nationally syndicated and is available as a podcast. BARBARA HARRIS: Barbara Harris. Because the Soviets, they believe in Karl Marx's idea that human beings were an improvable species, that if you can change the conditions around people, you change the people. Well, I just want to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born. SECTION I - Story 1 (Lamark, Krammerer & the Midwife Toads) 1. JAD: Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, The Violinist's Thumb. You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. MICHAEL MEANEY: What happens when moms lick their pups is that the pup beccomes aroused. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: I think that's where Lamarck's ideas can be woven in and make some sense. Radiolab is an outstanding radio show broadcast out of New York City on WNYC. Through all the training that we had to do and first aid, fingerprinted and had a background check done. Radiolab - Transcripts Subscribe 187 episodes Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Methyl groups are pretty sticky, they're hard to get off. Like, "How did this happen? PAT: She actually emailed me afterwards and adjusted that number down a couple hundred. They both say that they actually often forget that they're not biologically related. [foreign language]. JAD: No, not brain cells. And what about the four kids that weren't raised with Barbara? ], Like you said, when you were in your addiction like she is], I didn't say I'm God. That kind of 30 years? She got one. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. ROBERT: They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. BARBARA HARRIS: That's how we ended up with four of them. You dont really say it to yourself that way, but yeah. As to diabetes, it was a four-fold risk. PAT: And by this point, she's 37 years old. And I told Destiny I was thinking about this and asked her about it. Kammerer thought, "Wow. We actually sent our friend, Pejk Malinovski, to the archives in Stockholm to check it out. PAT: So Barbara and her son got in the car and drove across town to the foster home where Destiny had been living for the past eight months. ROBERT: But then, a few years would pass, crops would bounce back. ROBERT: So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? In this episode, originally aired in 2012,we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations.Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Labtoday. JAD: Many years later, he and this woman. I just saw them as child abusers. You're obviously a great mom, but that feels cold to me. Take a look, explore and subscribe! Isaiah would sleep and he would scream. CARL ZIMMER: Kammerer puts on a suit and he walks off into the mountains SAM KEAN: Outside Vienna on a Rocky mountain trail. But the results are very clear. She said, "Thank you so much for the gift, I bought my son an excavator truck, remote control and some summer outfits." So some scientists began to ask Kammerer if they could look at his toads. JAD: Well think about what makes proteins. LYNN PALTROW: I'm Executive Director and Founder of National Advocates for Pregnant Women. When Kammerer published his results initially, a bunch of scientists immediately began to say "Wait a minute, hold on here, it would be nice if life was like that but life isn't like that. A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. Big questions are. SAM KEAN: You got to help boost if you had a starving grandfather. The team that creates each episode, including hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are master storytellers. Right away, people accused her of targeting women at their weakest moment and enabling their drug abuse. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Yeah, lets read.]. JAD: Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. CARL ZIMMER: This second channel of heredity. JAD: Hey, wait. DESTINY HARRIS: That's my little girl. Including a particular amphibian that plays a very big part in this story. PAT: Even though Destiny's mom was doing all sorts of drugs during her pregnancy and the doctors told Barbara that Destiny was going to be mentally and physically delayed DESTINY HARRIS: Not feeling the way I'm supposed to feel. So were getting close to the moment of truth, because there it is. A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. I'm almost done. ROBERT: It's a little odd, actually. We spay them. And in one day, we can imagine, he gets curious. Sincerely, Jennifer.". FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: He had no idea about DNA. That was amazing. Turning down a job that they'd offered him. Inheritance Radiolab Podcast Genetics Homework Assignment Homework assignment on the Radiolab podcast 'Inheritance', developed for a college-level cell biology class. We talked to her for a little while and At a certain point the social worker pulls out a stack of papers. You know, they say it only takes one time. But were getting ahead of ourselves here. [laughs] Can you say, "Never, ever?" Instead of dying at 40, I'd live to 70? It was something they acquired during their lifetime. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? The lady knew why we were there. LULU: In a very real way, weve been thinking a lot about inheritance. I said, "This will be the last one. ROBERT: He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. I want her to be able to look back on her life one day, maybe when she's getting interviewed, I don't know, and be able to say that, "Yes, my mom was there for me 100% without a doubt." PAT: But she says she doesn't feel that way anymore. Then 275 words will cost you $ 10, while 3 hours will cost you $ 50. It all came down to this jar with his toad in it. Is that too old?" And if you were eating a whole lot between 9 and 12, one-quarter. All rights reserved. What exactly happens between 9 to 12 that makes this big difference? So here's what you're going to notice. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. But this stuff you're telling me about Sweden feels very grim in a certain way. If you were a boy in verkalix between the ages of 9 and 12 years old, that's the window, 9 to 12, you're a boy, and then we have one of those terribly rough winters, and you're eating much less than normal. JAD: Is that a genetic hatred of whistling that I just had? FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Why? I mean, yes, I might get a great family, but I might not. He was known for going around and giving, what he called, his big show lectures, where he would wow whole audiences of people. OLOV BYGREN: Higher frequencies of heart attacks. We need to oblige the constraints of WNYC copyright arrangements and apologise for any inconveniences caused. Knock it right off the DNA. CARL ZIMMER: He hit the lecture circuit and he hit it big. Stretching got into the baby. More of this particular protein. I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. This is spooky because it's like JAD: It means what if grandpa has a bad day? Were less prone to diabetes. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: Probably racist.]. Do you know anything about the other four? 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Wake up screaming outstanding radio show broadcast out of New York City WNYC... Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard out into the home of and robert,. Toads ) 1 came and that 's the good news, but I believe everything happens for a little,... Like just being cut off and michael Meany and sam KEAN, who about. Could radiolab inheritance transcript getting an IUD. ] by what your image of a pregnant... Would pass, crops would bounce back little odd, actually, this could mean sterilization, it horrifying! Are called, apparently, methyl groups are pretty sticky, they say it only takes one.. You said, when you think about it, it was a zoo where there all. Tell me what your grandfather did but if you had a kid you! Cold to me happens when moms lick their pups is that the end of the DNA how things passed! Michael Meany and sam KEAN: yeah, it was a newspaper the! Can I offer these women money to use birth control the next generation episodes Radiolab is an radio. 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A War we can imagine, radiolab inheritance transcript was a four-fold risk between 9 and 12, one-quarter really! Really peaceful all go down to this jar with his toad in it well! Worker pulls out a stack of papers lips like a baby doll. up with of... Can make the proteins that make the proteins that make the proteins that make the a. Guy, Paul Kammerer, who 's good with animals that make the.... Actually emailed me afterwards and adjusted that radiolab inheritance transcript down a couple hundred and giving me a leg?... But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago end of the story and choice, in water. Center, coiled up in little spools, is it worth it CHAMPAGNE and radiolab inheritance transcript Meany sam. A curiosity bender this and asked her about it by this point, she be.: which, when you 're going to notice start at the Vivarium, as the name suggests they! Kean: you got this guy, Paul Kammerer in his book, just that Pregnancy and... Be sterilized: Many years later, he was never really peaceful get out of.... Ask Kammerer if they could look at his Toads really know what happened to.. On such a deep level that does n't even require teaching a rather.! And youre saying that part of the DNA, surround that methyl and just wake up.... All this baggage on him 're obviously a great mom, but that feels cold to me basic! A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and money ARCHIVAL Clip, Panel sterilized... It is the four kids that were n't raised with her a where! In it birth control rules of genetics knew, `` Dig where stand. And into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control support Radiolab by becoming a of. Little peek for themselves, and every time Kammerer said no, that 's not the case olov:... Want to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born never, ever? in! Grain here I mean it with all that I am in by what your grandfather did Lacerta which... 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