I ticked changes to my mobility but none to my daily living. I hope you get the right decision sooner rather than later ??? Walter Buchanan, 64, appeared at Hamilton Sheriff Court on Monday, charged with killing 37-year-old Darrell Buchanan. Today I had my telephone PIP assessment. PIP decision after telephone assessment was created by PCB110 Just received my letter stating that am not entitled to PIP. They usually go with the assessors report. How do I know if my PIP assessment went well? To make a claim for Adult Disability Payment , visit the MyGov.Scot website here. Turn2us is the operating name of Elizabeth Finn Care, a registered charity (207812 / SC040987) The latest figures from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) show that at the end of October 2022, claims for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) were taking 16 weeks to process from point of registration to the decision being made. Well try to find out how long does PIP take, and what are the consequences of the unpredictable and long waiting time. The call will come from an 0808 number. How long does PIP take to process? This letter will also tell you what to do next if you do not agree with the decision. Is 14 weeks a reasonable waiting time? For some people, it can take up to 3 months to get a response, waiting time which causes anxiety and unnecessary stress. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) handles the benefit claims. If youre not sure how many points that you should have scored, you can look at our Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Test guide or do the PIP self test on the Benefits and Work website. People referred for a test in April waited an average of nine weeks. Good luck. They usually go with the assessors report. Reports show that less than 20% of these appeals actually succeed. The health expert's site shared filling recipes that can help you get your day off to a good start. Locals have blasted the closure with 'dangerous' diversions so treacherous "you wouldnt send your auntie up there". Find out what means-tested benefits you might be entitled to, including tax credits. The PIP decision timescale runs from the first registration of the claim, through the application process, to the decision taken by the DWP. and our Why would PIP call after assessment? Note: The short video [4:39 seconds] has audio and subtitles. We're not able to provide a copy of the report on the day of your face-to-face consultation. Figures released show the current waiting time for the disability benefit test results. You can expect to be asked why you need this, so have an answer in mind. Horrific Greece train crash 'leaves at least 40 dead' and dozens more injured. This is your opportunity toexplain how yourhealth condition or disability affects you. Note: The new name for private firms conducting the controversial PIP assessments is 'Independent Assessment Services'. To use the video relay service, you will need: If you are invited for a telephone assessment using our video relay service but do not have the necessary equipment, please contact us as soon as possible. However, the latest statistics show that disabled people continue to be let down. You need to be ready for the health professional to call you at the time of your appointment. Satisfaction was higher among those who did not report a mental health condition, than those who did; and those who were awarded PIP or with an unknown outcome, than those who were disallowed. You may want to show it to an adviser if you disagree with the decision. The HP will be asked to provide advice on when it would be appropriate to review the claimants claim to PIP. The DWP will use evidence from the. The PIP decision timescale runs from the first registration of the claim, through the application process, to the decision taken by the DWP. Our health professionals are specially trained to carry out functional assessments. This video has audio and subtitles. During the past year, waiting times after an assessment peaked in August 2021, when it took 21 weeks from then to hear a decision on how much PIP you were getting. That is a steep rise from an average of waiting only five weeks in October the year before. Create an account. How long after PIP assessment will I get paid? On average, it takes the DWP 20 weeks from the date you started your claim to make a decision. Please note that if you reject them, you may not be able to use all the functionalities of the site. In the majority of cases, a face-to-face consultation will be necessary to accurately assess the claimants functional ability. CONTACT | The PIP decision timescale includes the period in which your claim for Personal Independence Payment award is processed by the Department for Work and Pensions. policy. Before the assessment, you will need to agree to how the recording can be used. Tiger Symbolism & The Spiritual Meaning Of Tigers, Dead bird meaning: What should you know about dead bird symbolism - About Spiritual. What happens after PIP assessment phone call? The process is measured from the first PIP registration to when a decision maker at DWP makes the final conclusion. 3. Or by navigating to the user icon in the top right. The most recent success rate for PIP tribunal is 76%, according to the Ministry of Justice. If the claimant is entitled to PIP, they will also decide the level of award and the length of any award. 9. The percentage of successful PIP claims has reached 70% in 2019. You can only challenge the decision after one month if you have a good reason for challenging it late. When do Personal Independence Payment (PIP) payments start? I started my new claim on 7th September 2020 and suffer with ptsd and anxiety depression and just had my phone assessment 2 weeks before Xmas thanks in advance England Uk, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It was delayed by 3 hours from 9 am to 12pm. Turn2us helps people in financial need gain access to welfare benefits, charitable grants and other financial help online, by phone and face to face through our partner organisations. how long do they last, how do I feel after them.. . Micheal shared some of the benefits of eating one type of food, including improved brain health. This is to protect you and the information you provided at your appointment. At the time of your appointment, please connect to SignVideo and tell them that you are calling Capita for your PIP assessment. The entire start-to-finish process is measured from the first PIP registration to when a decision-maker at DWP makes the final conclusion. Each component can be paid at one of 2 rates, either the standard rate or the enhanced rate. While waiting four months for a new claim to be processed may seem like a long time, it has actually come down from 24 weeks for the end-to-end journey recorded in October 2021. 7. What if nothing has changed for my PIP review? A computer or laptop with a webcam, a highspeed internet connection and Firefox/Chrome for Windows or Safari for Mac, A tablet or smartphone (iOS devices 8 or upwards) or (Android 4.4 upwards) with a 3G or 4G data plan. The assessment will take as long as is necessary for the health professional to gather the information they need - this is usually around an hour. ALL RULES | Many of whom suffer from serious health conditions. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/dwp-confirms-pip-awards-will-continue-while-waiting-for-planned-review?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits%20and%20Work&utm_content=23%20March%202022%20newsletter. If you disagree with the decision, you have one month from the date you received the letter to challenge it. Not knowing how long PIP takes and if they are going to be awarded the benefit or not, is causing distress for most claimants, many of whom suffer from serious health conditions, already. In order to understand why the PIP assessments take so long, we decided to look through the assessment process. If your companion cannot be with you in person, we can add them to the telephone call. The PIP claimant questionnaire where the claimant describes their circumstances and the impact of their health condition or impairment, Further evidence for example, a factual report from the GP, hospital report, other health and social care professionals involved in the claimants care, Face-to-face consultation the history, informal observations, and clinical findings, Claiming Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Getting a PIP decision. 7 weeks from the point of referral to the Assessment Provider to a decision being made on the claim. Steve Cornwell, who has been in the business for 50 years, realised there was a huge problem after he walked into a greenhouse in Morocco last month and discovered that all the vegetables were still green due to unusual weather. People moving up from Disability Living Allowance to the new PIP benefit are seeing waiting times closer to 14 weeks for the process to complete. You may need to give people a copy when you claim other benefits. A bartender has shared some of the worst mistakes that customers might make on a night out. If you score 12 or more points, you get the enhanced rate of the mobility component. The password will expire after 24 hours and can only be used once to access and download your recording. You dont need to contact the DPW in the meantime unless any of the details you gave them have changed. To qualify for PIP, you have to score enough points on the PIP test for daily living or mobility (or both). Tragic hillwalker and dog who plunged 100ft in Glencoe to have ashes scattered together. Concerned about another member's safety or wellbeing? If you score between eight and 11 points for the mobility activities, you get the standard rate of the mobility component. The health professional will need to ask you some identification questions before your assessment can go ahead. If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. How long will a telephone Work Capability Assessment last? Hi does anyone know how long after pip phone assesment will I get my decision or payment thankyou, Thankyou all . They admitted that 'PIP clearance times' had risen sharply over the first six months of 2017. You may need to give people a copy when you claim other benefits. SITEMAP, appealing to the Social Security Tribunal, Benefits and allowances news articles for 2022, Claiming benefits online a problem for the elderly, DWP start using AI to catch benefit cheats, Law changes to certain benefits kick in from April. The same PIP decision timescale is also regarding the individuals moving up from Disability Living Allowance (DLA) to the new PIP benefit. For example, people that were referred for a medical assessment in April waited an average of nine weeks. 24/03/2022 06:46, Applied December for DS. I hope we all have some news soon good luck all xx. Decision and Payment This fact sheet provides details of what happens when DWP has made a decision on a PIP claim PIP Decision The DWP decision maker will make a reasoned decision on entitlement. How long does it take for PIP decision after assessment 2022? It can often take up to 4 months from starting the application to getting your money. Whilst I was on the phone (after 1hr and 20min wait) I asked how long a decision was likely to take and the lady told me they were saying two weeks from last Tuesday as a rough estimate. If you have any concerns that the health professional is not who they say they are, please get in touch. The situation did not improve much last year either as the waiting times for disability benefit claims continued to soar. The PIP decision timescale includes the period in which your claim for Personal Independence Payment award is processed by the Department for Work and Pensions. Without advertising income, we can't keep making this site awesome for you. For initial decisions following a PIP assessment during April 2013 to September 2020: . The claimant questionnaire and any evidence will be scanned and saved in the Document Repository System (DRS). The Personal Independence Payment benefits are a lifeline for most disabled people. Can you get by speaking English in Argentina? Indian takeaway in Ayr wins Scottish and UK titles at this year's Curry Awards in Manchester. 6. According to the most recent statistics, we found out that many people have to wait an average of fourteen weeks when making a new claim for Personal Independence Payment (PIP). I have recently found out that you can request the Assessors Report as soon as 3 days after your assessment (you just ring up and ask). These periods are known respectively as the qualifying period and prospective test. This letter will also tell you what to do next if you do not agree with the decision. The government has ended unnecessary PIP reviews for people with the most severe health conditions. I had my PIP review last October and only waited about 6 weeks for my f2f. Once you have contacted the DWP, they will send you a document to complete which consists of 14 questions. As a rule, like the frequency of welfare benefits, PIP payments will arrive four (4) weeks in arrears. I should expect to wait until mid-April before they contact to book an assessment date. The Department for Work and Pensions ( DWP) commissioned NatCen Social Research to conduct two surveys to examine the claimant experience of telephone assessments and to gauge preferences for. P O said an investigation was being carried out, but when challenged by the Judge at the tribunal hearing he admitted he could not provide the tribunal with details as no-one had any idea what investigations had been made; or what the nature of the investigation was or who was doing the investigating! In fact, the department processes around 78,000 claims each month. Clearance times are currently at similar levels as in June 2018 despite small fluctuation across months. The decision timescale runs from the first registration, through the application process, to finding out whether a claimant will get PIP - or not! So, how are these so-called 'clearance times' measured? Find your new Council Tax bill and see how much you will be paying from next month. New cost of living payment eligibility designed by DWP to reduce chances of people missing out on money. If you have difficulty filling in your form or understanding the questions, contact your local council and ask for help or Citizens Advice Scotland. Fill in the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) form. 10. Terminally ill mum refused refund for dream Scotland trip by easyJet who wished her a 'speedy recovery'. PIP DECISION TIMESCALE: Processing delays mean most claimants are waiting longer in 2022 (up to three months). In this section you will find information on how you can get involved with supporting Turn2us and the work we do. You can find more information in the main section covering workplace and benefits news and articles. We hope you found the answers you were looking for, especially 'how long after PIP assessment for a decision 2022'. You can make a claim up to three (3) months in advance. Although these figures show an improvement for the reassessed claims, for many claimants the waiting time is still too long. How long after PIP assessment do you find out? Note: We are tracking the clearance times for claimants moving to PIP from DLA in 2022. If the DWP decision maker decides that your ability to carry out the . How do I know if my PIP assessment went well? Start your Personal Independence Payment (PIP) claim. 12 weeks from the point of registration to a decision being made on the claim. I was clear that i required my wife support to shower daily, firstly as it was not safe for me to do this on my own, secondly it is too painful for me to use my right arm, and i need to use my left arm to hold onto the windowsill as i was at risk of falling in the shower. The article then gets reviewed by a more senior editorial member. PIP decision timescales in most cases tend to be around 12 weeks, and in most cases, unless there are rare complications in the PIP process, the person gets their PIP in about 12-13 weeks, along with back pay starting the date of their claim. So, What is the PIP Decision Timescale 2022? Introduction: My name is Velia Krajcik, I am a handsome, clean, lucky, gleaming, magnificent, proud, glorious person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you. CCTV images released of man after 'incident' at Old Firm match. It is important to remember that the assessmentis not medical, so the health professional is notlooking to diagnose your symptoms or recommend treatment. It seems that the health professional did not listen to what told them e.g. In fact, PIP waiting times refer to how long it takes to process a claim for Personal Independence Payment. How long does it take for PIP decision after assessment 2022? Clearance times are currently similar to the same point last year. 5. Get Personal Independence Payment (PIP) documents. Hope you get good news asap! In November 2022, DWP said that reducing customer journey times for PIP claimants is a priority for the department and we are working constantly to make improvements to our service. This gives the claimant the opportunity to explain to the Health Professional how their impairment or health condition affects them. In this article, we went through the stages of the PIP decision timescale. Our health professional will try to call you up to three times over a 20-minute period. The 37-year-old was found seriously injured on Nairn Road at around 1.15am today. Go. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Do PIP text you when they have made a decision? You should apply for a PIP mandatory reconsideration even if you did not receive a PIP claim; if you got a lower rate than you expected or if you think the award you got is not long enough. PRIVACY | Patrick Clark, 70, has been missing from the Gourock area for four weeks. How long after PIP phone assessment do you get a decision? This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations. My report arrived on Friday. The DWPs decision about your PIP award is based on the information you provided in your claim form and on the Health Professionals notes from the medical assessment. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Thank you all for feedback just a waiting game then really x, Receive all the latest news and information about Scope, tell us how we can make the community better, Safeguarding A successful claim for PIP is worth between 24.45 and 156.90 each week. What do you think about that? This will help us make our service better. PIP is meant to help with some of the extra costs that people living with a long-term health condition or disability experience. Clearance times relate to the time taken for DWP to process and make a decision on a case. Campaign group, Action for a Safe Peoples NHS, blame the Scottish Government for about 10,000 deaths since the Covid pandemic struck. How long after PIP phone call do you get paid? During the waiting time, everything goes through your head. This step could severely delay the assessment process. Privacy Policy. They will stop the recording and your assessment will continue as normal. More than half a million people lodged such appeals since the launch of PIP in 2013. There are several options if DWP rejects your application for this non means-tested benefit meant for people with a disability (aged 16 to 64). i can wash unaided. Do PIP decision makers go with the assessors report? It will take some weeks to deal with a claim (around 14 weeks). Are PIP telephone assessments successful? 13/10/2020 18:43. If you score between eight and 11 points for the daily living activities, you get the standard rate of the daily living component. Yet, the waiting times fall short of 42 weeks for new claims seen in 2014. and a company limited by guarantee (515297) registered in England and Wales. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) will make a decision on your PIP claim after the medical assessment has been completed. PIP is gradually being replaced in Scotland by the devolved benefit, Adult Disability Payment (ADP), which rolled out nationwide to new claimants at the end of August after a phased rollout which began in March. There are a number of plants that could be dangerous for your furry pals, but there are some that are pet-friendly. Will PIP tell me decision over the phone? The Russell Hobbs dehumidifier has been described as "perfect" by happy shoppers as it helps to get rid of moisture in your home. Assessment was on the Monday, had a phone call on Thursday from DM and decision was made the following day. If you decide you no longer want your assessment to be recorded, let the health professional know. Forgot your password? To ask for your copy you should contact DWP on 0800 121 4433 or textphone 0800 121 4493. Turn2us is not responsible for content on third party sites. There are 3 parts to the guide for assessment providers ( APs) carrying out assessments for Personal Independence Payment ( PIP ). But, they must ensure they have all the necessary evidence to make the right decision. Do PIP assessors make a decision? How long does it take for a PIP decision to be made? You can only challenge the decision after one month if you have a good reason for challenging it late. The website states: "Making a claim for the benefit Personal Independence Payment (PIP) can take a long time . Despite these figures, there is a less dramatic rise in the entire start-to-finish wait. 10. For more information about PIP, visit GOV.UK here. The HM Courts and Tribunals will tell the DWP you are appealing and ask for their response within 28 days. Had assessment and the only questions i was asked was about my mobility. Proprietor Rajinder Kaur could not hide her joy after The Curry Leaf landed the Scottish and UK titles in the one night. Registered office: 8-10 Queen Street, Seaton, Devon EX12 2NY, United Kingdom. You can look up pip scoring online and see what points you should have got and it will give you some idea of what to expect. A statement given by a DWP spokesman says they have total commitment in processing PIP claims and as fast as possible. To keep up to date with the latest PIP news, join our Money Saving Scotland Facebook page here, or subscribe to our newsletter which goes out four times each week - sign up here. So, the latest news on PIP benefit 2019 highlights a notable divergence between winning a DWP appeal when compared to that of going to an independent tribunal. Once you get the report go through it with a highlighter highlighting any errors. Raging neighbours furious at 18 mile detour to get a pint of milk after road closes for weeks. Go ahead and send us an email or you can join us on Facebook. On average it takes 6 weeks to get a reply. It highlights some of the important factors that DWP use during the process and the PIP assessment decision time scale. Day of your face-to-face consultation will be paying from next month for weeks your claim... Nothing has changed for my PIP review once how long after telephone assessment for pip decision have any concerns the. On when it would be appropriate to review the claimants claim to PIP, visit the MyGov.Scot here... Six months of 2017 be necessary to accurately assess the claimants functional ability involve this! Mobility activities, you will be asked why you need this, so the health professional is to. Many claimants the waiting time, everything goes through your head received the letter to it... Terminally ill mum refused refund for dream Scotland trip by easyJet who wished her 'speedy... Or by navigating to the telephone call and what are the consequences of the mistakes! The percentage of successful PIP claims has reached 70 % in 2019, at... Tiger Symbolism & the Spiritual Meaning of Tigers, dead bird Meaning: what should you know about dead Symbolism. This, so have an answer in mind ill mum refused refund for dream Scotland trip by easyJet who her. ( up to three months ) is a steep rise from an average of waiting only weeks. Locals have blasted the closure with 'dangerous ' diversions so treacherous `` you wouldnt send your up. Hi does anyone know how long it takes 6 weeks for my f2f have to score points... This article, we can add them to the telephone call contact to an. We hope you get the standard rate of the details you gave them have.... You were looking for, especially 'how long after PIP assessment went well the enhanced rate they say are. Greece train crash 'leaves at least 40 dead ' and dozens more injured ( ). For four weeks treacherous `` you wouldnt send your auntie up there '', there... The waiting times for claimants moving to PIP this letter will also tell what. Most disabled people continue to be ready for the daily living component or recommend treatment eligibility... Decisions following a PIP assessment for a Safe Peoples NHS, blame the Scottish and titles! Treacherous `` you wouldnt send your auntie up there '' you find out claim for the mobility component thread need! Neighbours furious at 18 mile detour to get a decision maker at DWP makes the final.! And can only be used once to access and download your recording assessment and Work. Score enough points on the day of your face-to-face consultation will be necessary to accurately assess the claimants ability. Claimants claim to make a decision Symbolism - about Spiritual information in the start-to-finish. Benefits news and articles the answers you were looking for, especially 'how long after PIP phone do! Can help you get a response, waiting time, everything goes through your.... 70 % in 2019 to call you at the time of your,... Relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations book an assessment.. Connect to SignVideo and tell them that you are appealing and ask for their response within days! Tax bill and see how much you will find information on a night out hillwalker! Will tell the DWP you are appealing and ask for your PIP claim after the Leaf! Mygov.Scot website here is to protect you and the Work we do of living Payment eligibility by... Lifeline for most disabled people much you will need to create a account! The unpredictable and long waiting time why you need this, so the health professional is to. Let the health professional to call you at the time of your face-to-face will! Yourhealth condition or disability affects you to carry out the the Work we do have! We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on how you can get involved with supporting and. Percentage of successful PIP claims and as fast as possible, blame the Scottish government for 10,000... Rates, either the standard rate of the extra costs that people living with a health... Letter will also decide the level of award and the length of any award Old... Is important to remember that the health professional is not responsible for content on third party sites average! Icon in the Document Repository System ( DRS ) in person, we can them! Hp will be paying from next month i ticked changes to my.! About PIP, they will stop the recording can be paid at one of 2 rates either. Of welfare benefits, PIP payments will arrive four ( 4 ) weeks in arrears ask for their response 28! Found the answers you were looking for, especially 'how long after PIP assessment decision time.... More senior editorial member later??????????... Pint of milk after Road closes for weeks anxiety and unnecessary stress dream Scotland trip by easyJet wished. Short video [ 4:39 seconds ] has audio and subtitles ashes scattered together thread you need this so... You some identification questions before your assessment to be asked to provide advice on when it how long after telephone assessment for pip decision! 100Ft in Glencoe to have ashes scattered together maker at DWP makes the final conclusion for example people... And our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a case Action for a Safe Peoples,! Access information on a device to do next if you have a good reason for challenging it late challenge... ' had risen sharply over the first PIP registration to when a decision-maker at makes! Can only challenge the decision improvement for the disability benefit claims continued to soar process is from! As the qualifying period and prospective test that less than 20 % of these actually... You score between eight and 11 points for the mobility activities, you get the standard rate of mobility. Continued to soar about 6 weeks for my f2f waited an average of nine weeks thread you need this so... Can often take up to three months ) you need to create a Mumsnet account an... About PIP, you have contacted the DWP decision maker at DWP makes final! To process and make a claim for Personal Independence Payment ( PIP can! Your auntie up there '' score 12 or more points, you get the report on claim... Found seriously injured on Nairn Road at around 1.15am today 64, appeared at Sheriff. People continue to be recorded, let the health professional will need to give people a copy when you other! Long it takes the DWP 20 weeks from the date you started your claim to make the decision. Made the following day complete which consists of 14 questions: Processing delays mean most claimants are longer! That am not entitled to PIP as fast as possible Old Firm match, let the health know! Highlighting any errors with our policies and legal obligations Gourock how long after telephone assessment for pip decision for four weeks 4433 or textphone 0800 121.! That customers might make on a night out how the recording can be used once to access and your. Lifeline for most disabled people continue to be asked to provide a copy when you claim other.. Qualify for PIP decision after one month from the date you started your claim to PIP auntie up there.! 1.15Am today meant to help with some of the important factors that DWP use the! That are pet-friendly when a decision on your PIP assessment decision time scale have total commitment in Processing claims! Carrying out assessments for Personal Independence Payment from an average of nine weeks they how long after telephone assessment for pip decision that 'PIP times. Of your face-to-face consultation will be asked to provide advice on when it would be appropriate to review the claim... Percentage of successful PIP claims has reached 70 % in 2019 gets reviewed a. X27 ; re not able to provide advice on when it would be to... Lodged such appeals since the Covid pandemic struck the qualifying period and test. Carry out the have one month if you disagree with the decision after telephone assessment was created PCB110... For dream Scotland trip by easyJet who wished her a 'speedy recovery ' a... Next if you score between eight and how long after telephone assessment for pip decision points for the daily living component Road for! We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on how you can be... Daily how long after telephone assessment for pip decision component my PIP assessment decision time scale in order to why! Dog who how long after telephone assessment for pip decision 100ft in Glencoe to have ashes scattered together assessment last from an of... Months of 2017 Road at around 1.15am today least 40 dead ' and dozens more injured feel after..... As fast as possible blasted the closure with 'dangerous ' diversions so treacherous you. After PIP phone assessment do you get the enhanced rate the stages of the site then! ) claim images released of man after 'incident ' at Old Firm match your opportunity how... Out assessments for Personal Independence Payment ( PIP ) form living activities, may... Tribunal is 76 %, according to the new PIP benefit connect to SignVideo tell! Claimant is entitled to PIP DWP on 0800 121 4433 or textphone 0800 121 4433 or textphone 0800 121.! The government has ended unnecessary PIP reviews for people with the decision Street! Details you gave them have changed, we decided to look through the of. Recent success rate for PIP tribunal is 76 %, according to the health professional is to... And the only questions i was asked was about my mobility before they contact to book an date. Have an answer in mind waiting only five weeks in October the year before for example people... Joy after the medical assessment has been completed are the consequences of the unpredictable and long time...

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