But I completely disagree with that viewpoint. Per Georgia law, audits are routinely conducted, and discrepancies are investigated . Amortization cost: The annual cost of a pension funds contribution toward any unfunded liabilities. 5737 Mesmer Ave. Although the bill would have meant increased near term contribution rates, it would have reduced the total long-term cost by $7 billion over the 30-year timeframe (see Figure 2). If youwere retired on a service retirement onDecember 31, 2003, under specific conditions, you may return to full-time teaching in a Georgia public school and still retain your current monthly retirement benefit. Because of this, it is important to understand the impact that the proposed bills could have had in order to guide future policy decisions. But a year-and-a-half later the TRS is currently valued at about $103 billion after seeing a 58% jump in value due to gains from stocks and other investments since that low point. That would make contributing into the teacher pension system one of the states biggest expenses. As seen in the calculation of a specific Base index, retirees from different time periods will have different Base indexes. Finally, in Georgia, as with most states, teacher pensions are not portable. This calculation is based on IRS tables and regulations and your age. Buster Evans, executive director of the Teachers Retirement System, felt sick to his stomach as billions of dollars on paper were lost. Finally, most states, including Georgia, have adopted multiple benefit tiers for teachers depending on when they were hired. House Bill 830 intended to allow TRS to make changes to its asset allocation by permiting so-called alternative investments to increase to as much as 10 percent of the total portfolio share. The opinions voiced are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. When COVID-19 hit Georgia in March 2020, the stock market tanked and so did the assets of the pension system relied on by 400,000 public educators and retirees. RetirementTalk.com is a one-stop resource for everything you need to know about retirement. During the retirement process, you must designate your withholdings. Another strategy that could put the pension plan on the solvency track long-term could be to shorten the time frame to pay off pension debt. The end of the fiscal year 2022 has confirmed the worst predictions for the states TRS. In 2007, plan actuaries recommended contributions of $60 billionof which states paid only $50 billionbut the figure rose rapidly to $87 billion in 2012. The calculation of the exact taxable amount and the monthly non-taxable exclusion amount is made during the regular processing of your retirement. In 2018, teachers contirbuted 6 percent of their salary to the pension fund, while the state contributed 21.14 percent. House Retirement Committee Chairman Tommy Benton said hes not sure what will happen next with House Bill 109 after he asked committee members not to vote on it Tuesday. States with consistently high funding ratios can require smaller employer contributions while ensuring that workers and retirees can count on receiving promised benefits. Figure 2. An official website of the State of Georgia. If you have questions, you could leave a comment below, but what may be an even greater help is to join my. And dont leave without getting your FREE copy of my Social Security Cheat Sheet. The calculation of the exact taxable amount and the monthly non-taxable exclusion amount is made during the regular processing of your retirement. From time to time Ill even drop in to add my thoughts, too. Alternative investments have been attractive to pension funds in recent years because of the perception that they can make up for the growing gap between risk-free interest rates and investment return targets for public pension portfolios. Please enable scripts and reload this page. Several speakers on Tuesday called for continued study of pensions. Benton argues the system is unsustainable, noting that its fallen from fully funded in 2001 to about 80% funded now. First and foremost, continuing to lower investment assumptions will reduce the risk of insolvency. Figure 3. Georgia TRS guarantees monthly benefits to retired educators, funded through employee or employer contributions and investment gains on those payments. As they work, teachers and their employers must contribute into the plan. The prevailing rhetoric is that the field of education does not pay well. As the nation was coming to grips with the COVID-19 pandemic in early 2020, officials with Georgias massive teacher pension fund watched assets plummet $15 billion in a few months when the stock market tanked. For new teachers starting out in Georgia, they can retire with their full benefits when they reach 60 years of age and have accrued at least 10 years of service. You may change your federal or state withholdings at any time by accessing your account via theretiree web portal, or by submitting the applicable withholding form to TRS. The pensions which go to k-12 public school, university and technical college educators are funded through a combination of employee contributions, money from taxpayers and investments. Topics Pension Reform Georgia Pensions. If you retired as a principal, you cannot be reemployed as a principal at the same school where you were employed prior to retirement. (Penalties apply for non-adherence.) But a year-and-a-half later the TRS is currently valued at about $103 billion after seeing a 58% jump in value due to gains from stocks and other investments since that low point. Georgias Teacher Retirement System (TRS) is facing massive losses in 2022 a dramatic reversal that comes just a year after an unprecedented boom. Benton wants to cut that to 3% once a year. Employer contribution: The percent of a teachers salary that the state, school district, or a combination of the two pays annually to the pension fund. In Teacher Pension Plans: How They Work, and How They Affect Recruitment, Retention, and Equity, we look at the history of these plans and how they interact with key education issues facing our schools today, including attracting and retaining high-quality teachers and providing equitable resources for disadvantaged students. Doing so would create a resilient, fiscally stable pension system that would deliver earned benefits to employees without becoming an overly-burdensome drag on annual budgets. You: 6% of your pre-tax compensation (mandatory) USG: 19.98% of your pre-tax compensation (fiscal year 2023); effective July 1, 2023, 19.98% (fiscal year 2024) Note: Changes in USG's contributions do not impact your benefit at retirement because it's determined by a fixed formula. Though this legislation is not expected to pass, all four bills attempted to elevate the impact of the Teachers Retirement System of Georgias solvency crisis. It would be easy to write a multipage essay on the WEP, but the necessary components can be distilled to a few simple points: Image Source: Devin Carroll, Data: Social Security Administration. Source: Pension Integrity Project actuarial forecast of Georgia TRS under HB 662. A COLA is granted if the Current CPI index is greater than the retirees Base CPI index. There are 390,000 current and former Georgia educators participating in the pension system as either active members or benefits recipients. Although it is true that the salary of an educator is not financially lucrative, there are perks to that profession that make it compete with executive level compensation of some businesses. Some Republican lawmakers say many teachers dont stay in the profession long enough to earn a pension, which is why a 401(k) which they can take with them if they leave makes more sense. This shows how contribution policy design is a key tool that states can use to reduce the budget risk posed by public pension plans. That led to increasing efforts by some lawmakers to consider changing the system so that new teachers received 401(k)s savings and investment funds that the state would contribute a share rather than pensions. The normal Social Security calculation formula is substituted with a new calculation that results in a lower benefit amount. Rather, it would have created a new tier of membership in the existing defined benefit plan for individuals hired on or after July 1, 2019. While a recent reduction of the amortization period for future unfunded liabilities from 30 down to 25 years is important, the plan should continue shortening this timeframe. ATLANTA (AP) A bill that would cut some retirement benefits for Georgia public school teachersis still alive, but just barely. Going forward the legislature needs to adopt a comprehensive approach to achieving fiscal sustainability for TRS. With that in mind, new and current teachers in Georgia should think carefully about their career plans and how they interact with the state's retirement plan. Participation in Social Security: Varies by District. Like any debtespecially debt that grows at an annual rate matching the plans ARR, 7.25 percent in TRSs casethe more you prepay now, the less you pay overall in long-term interest costs. Less than half-time employment in TRS covered positions,which equates to 19 or less hours per week, or 78 or less hours per month. The purpose of HB 667 was to shorten the schedule of pension debt payments by putting all new unfunded liabilities accrued each year on shortened 15-year payment schedules. You and USG contribute to your TRS account. Current index is defined as the six-month period ending on July 1 or January 1 of each year. These challenges have expanded by an unknown, but likely profound, degree amid the pandemic and resulting economic devastation playing out in real-time. Pew tracks plans operating cash flowthe difference between benefit payments going out and contributions coming inand compares that amount to the assets the plans hold, yielding the cash flow-to assets ratio. Before accepting employment after retirement, you are urged to contact TRS to discuss your situation. Benton expressed openness to that, but said it would only be productive if teachers groupswere willing to favor changes that could reduce state contributions. The two bills address TRS challenges in different ways: Figure 1. Without the necessary changes, further growth in unfunded liabilities and long-term costs jeopardizes retirement security for teachers and crowds out funding for other public services taxpayers rely on. Certain restrictions apply. https://www.teacherpensions.org/state/georgia. Read more PostJanuary 9, 2019 Many other states are adopting or weighing additional promising policies that could make costs more predictable without jeopardizing plan solvency or retirement security. Read Also: Questions To Ask Financial Advisor About Retirement. As of this writing, this was the lowest investment return reported among similar public pension plans a stark contrast to a record-breaking 29.2% return TRS had in 2021. Why Arent All Teachers Covered By Social Security? But Martin, too, said the strong financial numbers, for now, make it less likely the General Assembly would try to change the pension system. By 2017, the benchmark was more than $120 billion. And going forward, industry experts foresee much more modest returns. The six-month period ending January 1 is defined as the prior May through October. As a Teachers Retirement System of Georgia (TRSGA) retiree you can pursue other employment, but doing so could affect the continuation of your monthly benefit. Atlanta, GA 30318. Source: Pension Integrity Project analysis of TRS actuarial reporting. And then it plunged again, losing $15 billion in the recently completed fiscal 2022 as the stock market dipped again over the past year. Follow Jeff Amy on Twitter at http://twitter.com/jeffamy, Connect with the definitive source for global and local news. To be eligible for USG Retiree Healthcare benefits you must meet the definition of a retiree under the Board of Regents policy 8.2.8. HB 109 would have marginally helped by adding contributions, but HB 830 would have likely increased risk and lessened valuation transparency, which seems counterproductive. In those cases where a retiree selects a Retirement Option that leaves an ongoing monthly benefit to a beneficiary, the beneficiary will continue to be eligible for COLA awards under the same policy and conditions as the retiree. Retirement elections are irrevocable. This is a very likely scenario in both the short and long term. For example, if you worked as an engineer for 20 years before you began teaching, you may be able to do enough part time work between now and when you retire to completely eliminate the monthly WEP reduction. During last years legislative session, Georgias House Retirement Committee requested cost estimates of House Bills 662 and 667 both measures propose changes aimed at improving the solvency of the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia, a plan currently sitting at only 77 percent funded and holding nearly $22 billion in unfunded promises made to Georgia educators. The system had $75 billion in assets on June 30, 2018, but $22 billion in unfunded liabilities, money owed to participants. Therefore the annual benefit has increased from $40,495 to $49,523. Therefore not all members will experience the same COLA awards. Average pension value (2018): $43,192Median pension value (2018): $23,760Vesting Period: 10 YearsTeacher Contribution Rate (2018): 6%Employer Contribution Rate (2018): 21.14%Participation in Social Security: Varies by District. Federal law requires automatic withholding of income tax from the taxable retirement benefit unless you elect no withholding. Your retirement selection must be made within 60 days of eligibility or you will default into the TRS plan retroactively to your date of hire or eligibility. Much like any other type of debt, unfunded pension liabilities require additional payments that increase the overall cost. You should only put in your years of earnings that were covered by Social Security. As a result, the state may have to divert money away from other public priorities, including the schools day-to-day operating expenses, to pay for its rising pension costs. The combination of states improving fiscal responsibility and recent budget surpluses presents an opportunity for states to make pivotal changes that could bolster the sustainability of public pensions and promote predictable costs and contributions in the future. An audit in 2019 said that without any changes the state and local school district contributions into the plan would rise to $2.4 billion by 2025 and $4.4 billion by 2045. Two Northside 75 Additional information to be used for tax purposes is provided to you with your first retirement payment. Once the total of monthly non-taxable exclusions equals the total of taxed contributions made to TRS (contributions to TRS after July 1, 1987 havenot been taxed), the full monthly benefit is subject to federal tax. But thats still much better than in recent years and outpaces many similar pension systems in the country. The goal is to fulfill thousands of Georgia teacher vacancies, and it's been a goal of Gov. 51786 Total Views. Copyright 2023 Teachers Retirement System of Georgia. Get your FREE copy here. Tennessees reserve fund, discussed previously, takes this idea of funding above required contribution levels further than the practices of any other state by setting target contribution rates that exceed actuarial minimums and then putting the overage aside to stabilize future costs. Like state-run pension systems across the country, Georgia TRS has had an exceptionally bad year that will more than wipe out any gains made the previous year. I know this is a lot to follow, so if you want to take a shortcut in figuring out how the impact of the WEP, you may want to use my free calculator. That would make. The current measure would also limit how much sick leave someone could cash in upon retirement. You become vested (retain ownership of every dollar contributed to your TRS account, even if you leave USG) after 10 years of service. Public School Teachers in Georgia Deserve A Retirement Choice. Georgia Teachers' Retirement System, Atlanta, returned -12.8% for the fiscal year ended June 30, according to Executive Director Buster Evans. Los Angeles, CA 90230 It annually sends out more than $5 billion to retirees. A new audit says Georgia has saved about $71 million by rejiggering its retirement system for state workers and outlines cost-cutting measures that could reduce spending on teacher pensions by . If you retired as asuperintendent, you cannotbe reemployed as a superintendent for the same school system where you were employed prior toretirement. State lawmakers introduced several bills in the 2019 legislative session that could significantly alter the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia if passed in 2020. You and USG both contribute to the TRS, which provides a monthly lifetime benefit once you become vested. You and USG both contribute to the TRS, which provides a monthly lifetime benefit once you become vested. We still have some fundamental questions about the need for this bill to move forward, said Craig Harper, executive director of the 97,000-member Professional Association of Georgia Educators. In every state, a teacher who leaves prior to vesting is eligible to withdraw his or her own contributions, sometimes with interest, but few states allow those employees to collect any portion of the employer contributions made on their behalf. The state sets specific windows when teachers can retire with benefits based on age and years of experience. A salary range can vary greatly depending on your city and other important factors such as education, certifications, additional skills, and the number of years you have spent in your field. A typical mature pension plan, that is, one with a significant number of participants who have retired and are collecting benefits, will have negative operating cash flow, with plan administrators expecting to make up the difference with investment returns. 3200 Cobb Galleria Parkway Actions taken by the Boards are as follows: ERS APPROVED: A 1.5% monthly cost of living adjustment (COLA) for retirees and beneficiaries, payable on benefits not in excess of the Social Security wage base, with the following stipulations: They have fought many of the changes legislators proposed for the TRS, including the 401(k) for new teachers. 10 years of creditable service and youre aged 60 or older. is one of the options available to GaDOEemployees. Therefore, for the investment rate to reflect current market expectations, TRS should continue lowering investment targets in order to keep the system fully funded. How close you are to having 30 years of service. This calculation allows Pew to evaluate each pension funds level of dependence on investment performance and provides a metric for assessing plans risk of asset depletion and insolvency. Even before the global economic turmoil unleashed by COVID-19, Georgias pension plan for retired public K-12 teachers was $22 billion short of what it needed to have on hand to pay for its long-term, constitutionally protected pension benefits. While the full 6 percent of salary contributed by individual teachers is for benefits, the state contributes only 7.77 percent. Although those contributions are invested in the market, and often managed by private equity and hedge funds, a teachers pension wealth is not derived from the returns on those investments. Figure 1 shows how unfunded liabilities have been steadily growing since 2004 while the funded ratio has been declining. The duration of the example is ten calendar years. Suite 100 If youre a nonexempt or hourly paid employee working 20 or morehours per week, youll automatically beenrolled in the TRS Plan as of your date of hire or eligibility. The two bills address Georgias Teachers Retirement System challenges in different ways: Both changes would result in higher annual contributions into the system in the short-run, but for that cost Georgians would enjoy a more stable retirement system, both in future contributions and overall retirement security for members. The 7% annual growth in employer contributions from 2007 to 2020 allowed plans to catch up to actuarial recommendations and amortization benchmarks. The pension fund finished the fiscal . The states teacher pension system is closely watched because so many educators and retirees depend on the benefits. If warnings like this come to fruition the pandemics impact on the global capital markets is almost certain to expose pension plan vulnerabilities across the country, including Georgia TRS. However, given that the legislation did not sufficiently address the scale of the problem that existed even before the COVID-related crash, there is an opportunity for better reform in the future. This excludes any debt cost. Your retirement selection must be made within 60 days of eligibility or you will default into the TRS plan retroactively to your date of hire or eligibility. But teachers see the chance for educators to retire after 30 years or so and receive a good pension as one of the states best recruiting tools to attract young people into the profession and keep them in schools. To learn more, review the following Plan at a Glance information. These are hypothetical examples and are not representative of any specific investment. Georgia - Fulton - Atlanta. Both measures propose changes aimed at improving the solvency of the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia, a plan currently sitting at only 77 percent funded and holding nearly $22 billion in unfunded promises made to Georgia educators. Additionally, Georgia allows early retirement for teachers at any age once they have accrued at least 25 years of service. Both bills would accelerate the frequency of internal TRS actuarial experience studies from the current every five-year review to a lookback every three years. Taken together, the proposed bills reveal that the legislature senses pension risks need to be reduced and addressed. As our previous analysis discussed, this outcome, while a significant increase in cost, would have improved the systems ability to keep promises by reducing the risk of insolvency and improving the long-term predictability of contribution rates. Pension wealth is derived from a formula. 2021 RetirementTalk.net | State of Georgia government websites and email systems use georgia.gov or ga.gov at the end of the address. The example is based on the following assumptions: The chart demonstrates the value COLAs provide to offset increases in the cost of living as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI). This calculation is based on IRS tables and regulations and your age. Reason colleague Marc Joffe has written: The reliance on assumptions and judgements for these alternative investments can result in large discrepancies between valuation estimates and true value. A better alternative is to lower the investment return to reduce the need to chase higher yields. House Bill 109 would not have made any changes for current participants or increased state contributions. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. However, whereas HB 662 and HB 667 were targeting some of the main causes of TRS $22 billion in pension debt, the other two would have resulted in potentially reducing some marginal costs without solving the key issues that have driven the growth of unfunded liabilities in the first place. Source: Pension Integrity Project actuarial forecast of Georgia TRS under HB 667. You should also consider joining the nearly 400,000 subscribers on my YouTube channel! Figure 1. And because state lawmakers have raised concerns about its long-term financial viability. Should you needmore information, or if you have any questions, contactthe TRS office at (404) 352-6500 or (800) 352-0650 or visit the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia website. TRS retirees must report all employment in Georgias public school systems, regional and county libraries, the University System of Georgia, and RESA units. To demonstrate the value of the COLAs that are awarded to retirees/beneficiaries, an example is provided below. Average pension value (2018): $43,192. We cant keep kicking the can down the road.. Can I work after I retire? Before youre vested, you will only receive your contributions plus interest at the stated rate. Your retirement benefit is based upon on a predetermined formula, using your length of service and average monthly salary based on your highest 24 months of earnings. Employee contribution: The percent of a teachers salary that he or she pays annually to the pension fund. And that retirement perk is found through a combination of the state of Georgia pension plan, called Teachers Retirement System of Georgia , and the state of Georgia health insurance retirement plan. If you consider how much more in benefits you could receive over your retirement lifetime, it could be worth $100,000 in extra income over a 20-year retirement. Below are the end-of-the-fiscal-year assets of the Teachers Retirement System: James Salzer has covered state government and politics in Georgia since 1990. Note: Changes in USGs contributions do not impact your benefit at retirement because its determined by a fixed formula. The TRS Plan is a defined benefit pension plan. The huge increase will probably have a political effect: It could dampen talk during the 2022 session of the General Assembly about making changes to the pension system, something some Republican lawmakers have pushed for in recent years. But he added that in fiscal 2021, which ended June 30, TRS investments had their biggest year since 1986. For more information, please read the Working After Retirement Fact Sheet. State lawmakers raised concerns about TRS long-term financial viability in the past, but these legislative efforts fell short of bearing fruit. Although the length of vesting periods vary by state, 5 years is typical. Benton wants to change how cost-of-living increases are calculated to slightly decrease benefits over time and to limit how much sick leave retiring teachers can cash in to increase pensions. Snapshot of Teacher Retirement. Contact us: [emailprotected], Ga. bill allows retired teachers to get new salary and keep pension, business-member-directory-association-of-california.jpeg, assets plummet $15 billion in a few months, El Beulah Retirement Village Indianapolis In, How Are Ira Distributions Taxed In Retirement, Questions To Ask Financial Advisor About Retirement, What Type Of Retirement Plan Is Tiaa Cref, After Full Retirement How Much Can I Earn, Social Security Retirement Vs Social Security Disability, Nationwide Retirement Customer Service Number, The amount of monthly Social Security benefit you can expect, The number of substantial earnings years you already have, How additional years of substantial earnings will affect the WEP penalty. Military Retirement Income Exclusion Beginning January 1, 2022, $17,500 of military retirement income can be excluded for taxpayers under 62 years of age and an additional $17,500 can be excluded for taxpayers with more than $17,500 of earned income in Georgia. The topic of pension reform is never going to go away, said Evans, a former longtime Georgia school superintendent. adjustments to retirees and beneficiaries in FY 2023. Certainly when you get a year with good numbers, its going to make it less of an issue.. Before sharing sensitive or personal information, make sure youre on an official state website. MyGaDOE | Terms of Use | Human Trafficking Notice | Accessibility Notice | Content Management Login | Job Openings. (202) 986-0916, Senior Managing Director, Transportation Policy, Survey finds pensions are not a high priority for young government workers, Modeling methodology and approach to analysis of public retirement systems, Pension Reform News: Montanas proposed reforms, poor 2022 investment results, and more. While all retirees may not have the same award experience, once a COLA has been awarded, it becomes permanent. Stephen Owens, an education senior policy analyst at the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute, said the strong recent numbers make it unlikely there will be much of a push to change a pension program that is so strongly supported by educators. It will also improve the long-term predictability of contribution rates, enabling the pension system and its government backers to better plan for what is expected. Using the five-year average, Evans said the funding ratio is a bit over 80%. If the bill in fact saves $17 million itcuts retirement benefits by $17 million a year, said Joe Fleming, a lobbyist for the Georgia Association of Educators, a 26,000-member teachers group that is a chapter of the National Education Association. Georgia TRS has made several positive changes as of its last valuation report, including lowering its assumed rate of return (ARR) from 7.25% to 6.9%. If you leave USG before you are vested in your TRS benefit, you have these options: See how the TRS Plan compares to the ORP. The re-employed retirees would receive a salary while also maintaining their pension. The latest development in returns highlights the increased level of volatility public retirement systems face, but the states issues with funding the teacher pension predate these recent swings. HB 385 would allow a form of double-dipping if an educator completed three decades of teaching prior to retirement. He specializes in government finance, budgets, taxes, campaign finance, ethics and legislative history, Credit: Photo provided by Ceciley Pangburn, had hiked taxpayer payments into the system, Georgia House Higher Education Chairman Chuck Martin, R-Alpharetta, Police: UGA football staffer drunk, racing at 104 mph before fatal crash, Georgias Jalen Carter pulled from media interviews at NFL combine, UGA star Jalen Carter present at scene of fatal crash, MARTA unveils revised Atlanta expansion plan, Police: Stetson Bennett hid behind brick wall prior to arrest, Democrats celebrate as Eli Lilly announces $35 insulin cap for all customers, Georgia House panel backs bill building on 2022 mental health overhaul, Persinger wins runoff for Georgia House, growing Republican majority, Georgia Power proposes steep rate increase for customers - How it affects what you pay, Results from the Tuesday special election for the Georgia Legislature, Refugees and their advocates see a champion in Jimmy Carter. , felt sick to his stomach as billions of dollars on paper were lost system where were... 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Http: //twitter.com/jeffamy, Connect with the definitive source for global and local news 5 billion to retirees assets! In employer contributions and investment gains on those payments that workers and retirees depend on the benefits and both. Salzer has covered state government and politics in Georgia since 1990 is to... Comprehensive approach to achieving fiscal sustainability for TRS she pays annually to pension. Contribute into the plan 2018 ): $ 43,192 several speakers on Tuesday called for study! And retirees can count on receiving promised benefits stomach as billions of dollars paper. The funding ratio is a very likely scenario in both the short and long term funded through employee or contributions... Project analysis of TRS actuarial experience studies from the taxable retirement benefit unless you elect no withholding this a! Comment below, but these legislative efforts fell short of bearing fruit forward, industry experts foresee much more returns! Resource for everything you need to be reduced and addressed the calculation of the teachers retirement system, sick... Are the end-of-the-fiscal-year assets of the fiscal year 2022 has confirmed the worst for. The example is ten calendar years in the 2019 legislative session that could significantly alter the teachers retirement system James! Cola is granted if the current every five-year review to a lookback every three years use | Human Notice... Or employer contributions while ensuring that workers and retirees can count on receiving promised benefits taxable... The six-month period ending January 1 is defined as the six-month period ending January of... Employed prior toretirement should be left unchanged 60 or older and dont leave without getting your FREE of! Contributions do not impact your benefit at retirement because its determined by a fixed.! Former Georgia educators participating in the country are to having 30 years of that!

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